Interview with MDC leader Morgan Tsvangirai

Zimbabwe opposition boss Morgan Tsvangirai was in South Africa this week to attend the regional conference of the World Economic Forum in Durban. The Movement for Democratic Change (MDC) leader spoke to IRIN about Zimbabwe’s economic and political crisis, and next year’s make-or-break presidential election. QUESTION: Has the political landscape changed in Zimbabwe as a result of the recent death of three (ruling party) ZANU-PF stalwarts? ANSWER: My own assessment is that is it a serious setback, these were close allies of (President Robert) Mugabe, close functionaries, I’m sure they’ll have to go back to the drawing board to re-strategise again. These were blind followers of Mugabe’s violent campaign and I think there’s a significant impact on his election strategy. Q: Are the three replaceable? A: I think they’ve gone through shock therapy, it depends how they recover from it, I think the writing’s on the wall and there will be few takers for the positions. Q: Mugabe has made the land question central to his campaign to retain power, how can the MDC successfully campaign around the land issue? A: Mugabe has no long-term strategy on the land, neither does he have a plan. What he has done is he has put forward a tactical position. You cannot have a government which deliberately says this law shall apply, this law shall not apply. You cannot have a government that is dismissive of the law for political purposes. The government land programme cannot be successful unless it empowers people economically and leads to sustainable economic development. On the contrary, the opposite has happened. So while he is articulating the need for land reform, that everybody agrees on, I think the methodology that he has applied to achieve that objective has been a disaster. Q: How then, will the MDC regain the initiative, so to speak over the land issue in the forthcoming presidential election campaign? A: Some people wonder why it is now an issue after twenty years, its because the MDC has said ZANU-PF has failed to implement a sustainable land reform programme, we will implement a sustainable programme. That’s when Mugabe turned round and said land reform is a ZANU-PF issue. As far as the MDC is concerned it’s a clear case, the method of implementation must be sustainable, equitable, lawful and transparent. Q: Are you confident that if the MDC comes to power you can successfully resolve the land issue? A: I see no problem because we do have a plan with clear objectives, and we realise it’s a long-term issue that requires significant resources from the international community which I know would be forthcoming if things are done legally and in an orderly manner. But what Mugabe has done is to have sacrificed the financial resources that were available for land reform, that’s tragic. Q: The MDC has proven support in urban parts of Zimbabwe, but what are you doing to bolster support in rural areas and other ZANU-PF strongholds? A: It’s true our support is primarily urban, that’s because the MDC emerged from the workers’ movement and the urban base is very strong for us. But that does not mean we have not made breakthroughs in the rural areas. We have been doing well in Mashonaland and also the Matabeleland region is fully behind the MDC. We think that ZANU-PF can now really only rely on one or two provinces. I think people have learnt to cope with the violent strategy of ZANU-PF. And recent results show this, despite all the ZANU tactics, including closing down the town of Masvingo, it was still a victory for the MDC mayoral candidate there. Q: When and if an MDC government comes to power, how would you deal with the war veterans and a clearly partisan army and police force? A: The veterans are just a small rogue element, no more than 2,000 people who have been causing a lot of havoc and intimidation, they can be contained very easily. The majority of the veterans are law abiding and democratic, I think an MDC government would enjoy their support, provided of course, we don’t reverse their pension benefits, that’s their biggest worry. Dealing with a partisan civil service will be difficult, but we’re committed to ensuring the professionalism of these institutions is enhanced. Anyone who is obstructive will be removed. But of course we do need continuity, but there’s a great need to depoliticise and transform the army and the police force and end the system of patronage that has been with us since independence. Q: Would an MDC government be in favour of trying those responsible for political crimes? A: There’s absolutely no excuse for the lawlessness that now characterises our country. So yes, those individuals would have to face prosecution for those crimes. Q: What about senior government politicians accused of orchestrating the widespread killings in Matabeleland in the eighties? A: There’s a definite need to get some clarity on this and also call those responsible to account, it’s a complex issue, but we’re certainly behind finding out the truth about that period. Q: What kind of presidential election are you calling for? A: There are a number of conditions that we would like to see, we need an independent electoral commission, we’re the only country in the region without one. Secondly we want the re-organisation of the voters roll, at the moment it is shambolic. We want to see peace restored to allow free campaigning, as well as free voting. For that to happen you need the presence of the international community, you need international observers. This is something Mugabe must agree to, in order to give the poll credibility. But we need international observers in the country prior to the election, to observe campaigning as well. It’s not just the poll, its what happens leading up to it that needs to be clean and fair. There also needs to be a strong regional call for a free election as a condition of legitimising the outcome. President Mbeki needs to be forthright on that. We also need international logistical support, Mugabe always uses lack of resources as an excuse for vote rigging. Q: But what if President Mugabe says no to all those things you’re calling for, will the MDC still contest the election? A: It’s up to the people, they’re waiting to cast their votes, and I think it will be a defining moment. And we’re not going to deny Zimbabweans their opportunity to vote for change, in spite of the obstacles the government is busy putting in the way. Again, the Masvingo result proves violence and intimidation of voters only goes so far, and that win has given us a tremendous psychological boost. Q: ZANU-PF has said that a violent election is inevitable, how is the MDC going to respond? A: Yes we know that Mugabe is building structures of violence. We’re responding by building our grassroots support and educating people to cope with the violence and getting them to understand that the only way to stop the violence is to get rid of the ZANU-PF government. Q: Are you concerned that Zimbabweans may well be voting MDC in protest? A: Whatever it is its still an MDC vote, that’s fine as long as it delivers an MDC victory, that’s positive for the country. Q: What sort of role are you looking for from South Africa in terms of heading off the current crisis in Zimbabwe? A: I think South Africa is playing a positive role currently in a number of ways. I think South Africa’s engagement of both sides of the political divide at high level is the right way to go. Secondly, I believe the lifeline that the South African government is providing in terms of fuel and power is very important, to head off total collapse. To have a successful election we need a functioning country. Q: SADC (Southern African Development Community) has refused to condemn Mugabe, unlike (US Secretary of State) Colin Powell, how do you interpret the deafening silence in the region towards your country? A: There has certainly been silence from most of the SADC leaders, but we’re happy with the South African government’s current stand, its positive. Q: How do you think the court case against you is going to develop (Tsvangirai is charged with inciting violence in a case that has gone to the Supreme Court)? A: Even the government is aware that the constitutional challenge is going to make the whole case null and void and I’m sure there’s no way they’re going to get a conviction out of it. Mugabe, despite his efforts to fashion a compliant judiciary has failed in that regard. Q: The MDC is often accused of being just a front for Zimbabwe’s white minority, who does the party really represent? A: People are just misrepresenting the MDC, its just political opportunism. The MDC’s roots are within the labour movement, we’re a social democratic party. We represent workers and peasants and have very wide support amongst the civic movements in Zimbabwe. Of course some business people support us, look what Mugabe has done to the economy, but we cannot at all be considered a champion of white interests exclusively. Q: What’s your economic vision for Zimbabwe and does it contain the kind of painful structural adjustment policies that have failed to bear fruit in the rest of the region? A: Certainly structural adjustment has not given us any benefits, Mugabe violated every single macro-economic rule, he went into the Congo war, paid the war veterans unbudgeted amounts, caused the Zim dollar to collapse through his lawlessness, etc. In the past there was no political will to implement real economic reform. We used to have a sound economy in Zimbabwe, and we can get that back. Sure change is needed but the people will not be asked to tighten their belts while the top leadership are loosening theirs. Economic reform is necessary and its going to be painful and we need the political will to go through those years together.