Transcript of Radio Gargaar call-in programme broadcast in August on Differentiated Assistance.
My name is Hayba Nur Khalif, from Hagardera.
This issue has a huge impact on us. We do not appreciate it. We are not ready for it. The issue will be a precedent to the troubles that caused us to flee Somalia, the insecurity and war and killings. It’s an issue that we do not accept. My message to WFP, UNHCR, and the Kenyan government is that we are not pleased with this issue, and all of us, young or old, do not accept it.
I’m speaking on behalf of Hagardera camp and all the camps in Dadaab. We do not accept it. We will not welcome it. It’s a problematic issue. We are refugees. We live in an open air prison. We can’t go anywhere. When we leave for Dadaab we are stopped.
I have a refugee card. UNHCR has not given me resettlement. I have not been given legal status that enables me to get out of refugee status. I have not been repatriated to Somalia. Where am I going back to? We are telling UNHCR, WFP and the Kenyan government that we do not accept this and we won’t welcome it. Don’t create problems for us and don’t create conflict among the refugees.
When I take my card, where will I eat? We do not accept it! Do not kill our children. If the UN, the government and WFP sat down and planned this, we would not accept it. The government and the honorable organization have taken care of us for a long time and we don’t want them to turn on us.
We are refugees. There are many organisations working in Dadaab. If there is no budget, there is someone earning a two million shilling salary, or 400 hundred thousand shillings, or 500 hundred thousand, who is seated in the office working. If that person can get a budget for their work and salary, how come my budget can’t be found? I’m given only a kilo and half (of food) which I get monthly. How does the man who gets a million shillings and who fails to get me a kilo and half still sit in office?
We ask that UNHCR and WFP either move from the Dadaab refugee camp, or that the camp is closed or they continue with the kilo and a half of food which we were content with. We do not accept to be divided and made to turn on each other. We don't want problems that don’t exist within us to be created. Respect our wishes. Whoever doesn't respect our wishes, we don’t have patience for the troubles that will result from it. But we have a request, we are refugees and we have the refugee card that we came here with, we don’t have other documentation, we can’t move around, our children have no other perspective. We are concerned with our card and we are following the calendar. In August everyone will be here at the gate with their cards and sacks. Who will stop us?
The UN and WFP shouldn’t shame themselves. They sacked the employees. There’s not a single person who was born here who is an employee. They were all sacked. The people at UN, WFP, DRA, who are paid in millions should go. There’s no lack of budget. When those people leave and the doors are closed is when we will lose hope and believe there’s no budget.
My name is Abubakr Sheikh Hussein. I live in Dadaab, particularly in Hagardera. Regarding this new issue in which a meeting concerning it was held here recently is an issue that shocks us a lot. It’s an issue that sensible people cannot conceive. That the biggest organisations in this camp that have been supporting people can have a meeting and decide to separate people into four groups, two of which are given close to nothing and two of which are given nothing at all. That has never been a way to run things.
It cannot work like that. The UN is the biggest organisation in the camps. We don’t see this version of the UN as the version it used to be. The UN that used to care for and support the camps. There’s nothing the UN is doing for us today. In a nutshell, this won’t work and we won’t accept it.
If they said there are no resources for all refugees in Kenya and we should return to our countries, it would have made sense. But the refugees who are all united and are the same and live in one block and are from the same camp, to tell them that there are resources for some of them and none for others is something that no sensible human can say. If they said there’s nothing for all of you and you should all leave then it would make sense. If they said there are few resources that will be distributed then it would make sense. But to provide for two groups and ignore two groups won’t work. We will not bear the responsibility of the insecurity and trouble that comes from that.
They say they will disconnect water, healthcare and education for group 3 and 4. Where will these people fetch water from? What is that thinking? The better thing to do would be to return these people to their countries. If there are no resources, shut down all the camps. That is our solution. Close down the camps. Return us back to our countries. Whether we starve or get thirsty, we will not blame anyone.
There are men who came to us the other day and in their report to us they said we will retain our cards. What is the point of the card? It is to take food, get access to healthcare, water and education. If we can’t get all that, what’s the point of retaining the card? It won’t work. And we won’t take it. Society will not accept this.
In August they told us they will provide for two groups and the rest can stay with nothing. They will be responsible for the outcome of this decision. DRA is at the forefront because they represent the government. The government is responsible for the peace in this country. There are over 150,000 people living in this camp. If for example you say only 50,000 people will receive aid, we don’t know who will hold back 100,000 people. It won’t work. Rather you stop giving food aid to everyone and not see WFP here again. And if food is being provided everyone will come with their sacks and cards and no one can stop them. We won’t stop them and we won’t take that responsibility. That is our take as the people living in the camp. All refugees are united in this stance.
My name is Isnino Ismail Abdullahi. I live in Hagardera camp, specifically section O.
This matter will bring us so much trouble. We haven’t gotten food in two months and people are starving. I know several families who are my neighbours who haven’t cooked anything this morning. They survived on bamba chakula. A lot of problems will result from the lack of this aid.
If they said there are no resources for everyone we would be content. If they gave people scant aid we would still be content because we have always survived on that scarcity. But now they are saying they will provide aid for some and none for others. Where will the one approved for aid go for the aid? The one denied aid will fight him. There will be suffering and insecurity. Our children who go to school will face problems. We now get water, two jerricans but because of this decision we won’t get water. There will be plenty of insecurity, problems and suffering. Once this month ends and we don’t get food, people won’t live here anymore, they will starve.
I’ll just reiterate what the others have said. I foresee plenty of problems, suffering, hunger and fighting resulting from this. The same problems that we fled from as refugees will continue here in a worse way. We ask the Kenyan government and charity organisations, if you don’t have anything to give us, take us back to where we came from. And if they have resources to provide then continue with the portions they gave us. The UN is working. The camp is still open. The organisations are still working. The staff are getting $2000-$3000 and no one has been laid off, no organisation has moved. But apparently there are no resources for the refugees. We won’t accept that. We’d rather die. We ask the Kenyan government to mediate between us and the organisations. There are resources for the refugees and they should receive them. They (organisations) want to keep it for themselves.
We don’t know where to go. Our children are in school. I have given birth to 10 children here and the oldest is 20 years old. There’s nowhere else for me to go. I don’t have Kenyan citizenship and can’t go to the interior. And we don’t have to document to travel across borders. We will starve here and be destroyed here. As the women of Hagardera we foresee plenty of problems coming to us from this issue. We want an answer to our request as soon as possible. We won’t accept this.
My name is Mohamud Ahmed Hassan. We gathered today to discuss what we encountered in the meeting the other day. It wasn’t a thing we could take.
I would sum everything up as this: instead of violence and fighting happening here, we want repatriation. Since we’ve reached this stage, the people are ready to be repatriated back to their country. We escaped killing, we can’t deal with more killings. We want repatriation.
My name is Deka Abdi Mohamed. I stay in Hagardgera refugee camp. I see this matter as wrong, corruption and injustice. We are refugees and as refugees we live in camps. I heard that the refugees who live in major cities like Kampala in Uganda are the ones who are placed in tiered groups but we don’t live in a major city. We are in a refugee camp and we haven’t stopped being refugees and we haven’t been resettled. We haven’t left the country and the Kenyan government has not accepted us and given us legal status. We have not been repatriated to our country and the camps haven’t been shut down. While still being confined in these camps, to be told that we will be divided into four groups, two of whom will receive aid, two who will not even receive water and have no rights. I see this issue as a huge wound to the refugees and their humanitarian rights.
We don’t want it. We are against it. We won’t welcome it. We won’t work with it. We won’t be responsible for it. Whatever the outcome of this, those who made the decision will be responsible.
There will be so many problems as a result of this issue. Someone could receive food aid and there’s another in the same situation standing outside with none. It’s injustice and corruption. It’s impossible for one person to get food and another doesn’t and they both have cards and are both refugees. They both came here for humanitarian reasons and are still in need. The country we fled from is still not safe and we can’t go back. People are still fleeing to this day and the ones who remained will be on their way here. It’s not a country to be trusted. Our children are being educated here.
They say two groups have no rights to water, education, healthcare, and food. The card you have will be dry (useless). If that is the case then let us be resettled. The groups that can’t access aid should be resettled abroad. If there’s justice and a scarcity of resources, we agree with what the chair lady has said: that the staff at these organisations should be laid off, the cars should be released, the doors of all these organisations should be closed because of a lack of resources. Let everyone feel the pangs of hunger and suffering. But not a single staff member has been fired, not a single office has been closed, not a single car has been immobilised. There’s still fuel, phones and ACs being used. They still drink their sodas. But the refugees and their rights are trampled on. We won’t accept it. There will be insecurity. Our lives will be at risk. Those who will be beneficiaries of aid will also be at risk.
My name is Mahad Diriye Mahmoud. I am a community leader at Hagardera. We are against this program of differentiating people. Because if something you don’t understand is introduced to you it can have many problems.
We were told that people will be separated into four groups and that only the first two groups will receive aid and the remaining two will receive nothing and that cycle begins now. That issue has caused so much anxiety in the community living in the refugee camps. It’s a problem we are facing. Because if your neighbour is told there is no aid and you receive aid, it will result in conflict. As refugees we are vulnerable people and creating a crisis within us will be intolerable.
From the 10th to 12th, they said we observe the Bamba Chakula queue because that’s how you know which grade you’re in. The biggest problem for us is there are poor starving people who have been placed in Grade 4 and Grade 3 (who don’t receive aid) and they have nowhere else to go. We’ve been living here in these camps for a while and this decision has brought so much anxiety and straight up trouble.
Imagine a man who hasn’t cooked and is told in the first cycle of aid distribution he will receive nothing because he is in category 3. Imagine the trouble and anxiety that will result from that? So it appears, logically and emotionally, that refugees have been abandoned. We are telling the government, UNHCR and WFP, that this decision should be looked into and we are against it because of the trouble it will create. The whole point of being in a refugee camp is to avoid and escape trouble. We want this issue to be stopped and everyone should receive aid.
(New speaker unnamed)
What WFP has announced is a huge disaster for the refugees. The refugees initially barely had education and water. People were dying of famine. Food aid was cut. And now they want to categorise people, where some are given food and others are not. It’s a huge disaster. We’ve had many dawns as refugees but yesterday’s dawn was unlike any other. Refugees who can’t afford to cook and who are struggling and who rely on the food provided by WFP, if you tell them there will be food cuts it will be a huge problem. You can see the situation the refugees are in. There will be insecurity. There are people who will try to con others. There’s already plenty of famine in the refugee camps. If WFP compounds on it it will bring more problems. If it is true what they say that there are scarce resources, then WFP should close their doors and move and let the refugees end. It would be better that way. Instead of saying part of the refugees will receive food aid and part won’t. There will be insecurity, girls will be raped, people will be robbed. Before that happens and we turn on each other, it is better for WFP to close their doors and move. The donors who provide food should be told the truth about what’s happening on the ground.
I want to tell the donors that there’s famine in the refugee camps. The reason WFP decided to categorise people and say they don’t have enough food to provide is due to shortage of resources. If that is the case, I want to tell the donors to support WFP and come to our aid. God is the one who provides. But we want the donors to specially observe the refugees in Dadaab camp. The refugees in Dadaab are in a difficult circumstance. The ones in Kakuma are in a much better place. Because in Kakuma most of them are in resettlement programs. Everyone is looking forward to something and has hope of leaving and that is a much better place to be in. But we have no future. We are just here in this camp. If they can’t provide food for the refugees they should repatriate some, resettle others and categorise the refugees in that way. But they shouldn’t categorise the refugees based on who gets to receive food and who doesn’t.
We are under the Kenyan government and they have given us peace. The biggest responsibility for this issue lies with UNHCR. I want the head of operations, William, to stand up. This is my call to him. The refugees are suffering and dying of starvation and instead of making us turn to each other, talk to WFP and tell them the truth. Don’t just watch us be in this situation William. Do you want us to come to your office in Dadaab protesting and evict you from your air conditioned office? We want you to stand up and find resources for the refugees. We know he has many difficulties and responsibilities and he may have bigger issues to deal with. But please find income for the refugees since Trump cut all aid. All these problems are caused by Trump. If he didn’t cut aid, at least the refugees would receive something. So I want him (William) to stand up. If a refugee deserves to be resettled then resettle them. And if they don’t deserve it then repatriate them. Deal with the refugees in that way. That’s better than deciding some people should receive food and others shouldn’t.
I would say the refugees who are poor and suffering and came here in 1992, who have neither been resettled nor repatriated, should receive their full rights as refugees in the camp.
My name is Salah Abdi Samatar. We are against this new issue that started today. Refugees have been living here for a long time, over 30 years. And in that time they were living as per the rules of the camp and the organisations and they received whatever was available. We are humans. We have brains and eyes. We know that sometimes things become scarce and sometimes things are available. We encountered times where there was nothing to be provided and vice versa. But what is new to us, is that a group is given aid and another is told there is nothing to be provided. That has really impacted us and caused an uproar. And it has caused a lot of problems and troubles within the refugee community. It’s a very unexpected and new situation.
People are questioning how they receive aid. As people who are the eyes of the community, we see many challenges and problems resulting from this. Our request to WFP and UN who made this decision and the Kenyan government is that they should go against this issue. If you foresee an issue bringing challenges, it is better to counter it with the right and just thing. We know there are many refugees in the world and we don’t know any of them who are being subjected to this issue. This issue has only been started here in Dadaab camp. If the aid organisations can’t provide anything for the 130,000 refugees living here, then they should be repatriated. And those who want to be integrated should be allowed to do that.
We request this issue that will bring many challenges to be stopped. We are not ready for this. As you’ve seen on the news there are people already protesting and causing an uproar in the camps because of this issue. And we don’t accept it and we won’t tolerate it. So those with sensibilities, and the organisations who value humanity and the Kenyan government that has accommodated us, should not be negligent. These refugees face famine and illnesses. They barely had medicine and water to begin with and faced many problems. And the little they got now is being categorised further to those who receive it and those who won’t. Our understanding of human rights is that people should have equal rights. There is no logical way of separating people.
As refugees when we were told about this integration matter, we told UNHCR and the aid agencies that we were very suspicious of this issue and we had complaints about it. We weren’t content with it. The last meeting we had with the head of operations we agreed that if as a refugee, you are not content with an issue, or do not fully understand it or agree with it, it will not be imposed upon you. That did not happen. Now we have decisions that were made without consulting the refugees. And that will result in many issues. We want the people who made this decision to rethink it and come up with a more sensible solution.
My name is Haiba Bille Hussein. I’m part of the community. I haven’t slept since the meeting the other day. It has caused a lot of worry in the refugee blocks. We don’t want to be separated. We fled from clan/tribal separations and now it seems like the Kenyan government, WFP and UN want to separate us along those lines again. This separation is tribal. Problems will arise from it and we won’t be responsible for them. To say one group will receive aid and the other won’t is a tribal way of separating people. We were like brothers and sisters who fled from the place, Muslim and non Muslim, who settled here together without any problems and were content with the two kilos of food we received. And now one group is told you don’t have access to water, education and the Kenyan government will take control over you. All this to people who don’t have anything, receive no remittances, have no one working on their behalf, have elderly people at home and disabled children. We have nowhere to go. The UN should move. The Kenyan government should move. WFP should leave us alone. We don’t want them. They are corrupt and we are not ready for corruption.
If WFP and the UN will feed us then let them feed us. And if not then let them leave us alone. We were living here as brothers and sisters, burying each other, carrying our elderly. They should leave us. We don’t want to see those big men who come here driving from Nairobi and preach to us. We don’t want them and we won’t accept them.
My name is Yussuf Bashir and I live in Hagardera refugee camp.
We are against this issue that has been imposed on refugee camps. We don’t want the problems of refugees to be decided (without input). Everything is on one plate for the refugees. If aid is to be cut then it should be cut for all. And if it is to be received then all should receive.
We are in God’s hands but we want those who are thinking about our situation to stop this matter. This issue of deciding one person should die and the other should live, and one has no access to food, medicine and movement and the other is to receive everything. It won’t run. We have never seen this kind of management before. And we won’t accept it now. We want it stopped. We don’t accept it and we don’t want it. If you pack us up and repatriate us all to where we came from then we will be thankful. But if you can’t do that, if you decide to cut off aid, then do so across all of us and God will provide for us. If not then provide for all of us. If you don’t want us to fight against each other.
My name is Hassan Abdullahi Hassan. I am part of the Hagardera community.
We have major complaints about these four groups that have been introduced. The complaint is, the community barely had anything to begin with and now they’ve added more challenges to that. And that can’t work. This new matter should be changed immediately. Because the people are the same. They are all refugees. To separate them into groups will result in insecurity. Because the people here are hungry and are refugees. They rather be told directly that there is no aid for all of them. Or whatever little there is should be distributed to all. Scarcity happens and is understandable. What we are against is separating people into groups and deciding one group will receive aid and the other won’t. That will result in insecurity. We are telling the government and the organisations that this issue will not run and it should be resolved and stopped immediately. If we are to starve let us all starve. But to categorise people will bring problems and there will be insecurity and a lot will go bad. We had peace and we lived here patiently and we won’t accept a manufactured crisis. So either cut the aid for everyone or distribute it to everyone.