IRIN interview with UN High Commissioner for Refugees Ruud Lubbers

UN High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) Ruud Lubbers concluded on Thursday a two-day visit to the Democratic Republic of the Congo (DRC) after meeting with President Joseph Kabila in the capital, Kinshasa. This was the first stop in what was to have been a four-nation mission to Africa's Great Lakes region and Angola, but due to the bombing of UN headquarters in Baghdad, Lubbers traveled to Angola from where he will return directly to the agency's headquarters in Geneva on Sunday. While in Kinshasa, Lubbers commended Kabila for positive political developments in the DRC that have led to the installation of a transitional government and a return to peace in some parts of the country. Lubbers said that as a result of these political strides, UNHCR was on the verge of concluding a plan for the voluntary repatriation of more than 300,000 Congolese refugees in surrounding countries. "The time has come to take action. We are very near to concluding a repatriation plan for your people," Lubbers told a news conference, referring to the hundreds of thousands of Congolese refugees mainly in Tanzania, Zambia and the Republic of Congo. He had the following to share with IRIN on Thursday. QUESTION: This is your second visit to the DRC in less than one year. What is the purpose of your present mission? ANSWER: I wanted to speak with the president, to compliment him on political progress, because now there is a national government based on the inter-Congolese dialogue, with a parliament and laws applicable to refugees. Another reason for my visit is to explain our efforts towards repatriating refugees from other countries who are under protection here in Congo, such as Angolans, Rwandans and, perhaps in the future, refugees from other countries such as Sudan. We now have the conditions under which it will be possible to begin a more formal programme of repatriation of Congolese who fled to neighbouring countries. Their number is estimated to be around 300,000 - about the same as the number of refugees from other countries who are currently in the DRC. I spoke with President Kabila about some very practical matters. Among other things, we discussed the need of refugees in DRC to have identity cards. This is important both for national security and for provision of aid to the refugees. President Kabila asked me in which ways he could help UNHCR with regard to internally displaced persons (IDPs), particularly in the troubled regions of the northeast, such as Ituri. I told him that we were willing to work in partnership with others in order to provide assistance to these people who did not cross the border into Uganda but remained in Ituri. I also highlighted that there now existed a possibility to combine humanitarian efforts for repatriation with development efforts for the country, because these refugees are people with productive capacities. To this end, we are going to work with organisations, government agencies and NGOs for development. Q: Speaking of these hundreds of thousands of Congolese refugees who agree to be voluntarily repatriated, the majority fled the northeast region, namely Ituri District and the Kivu provinces, where killings and fighting continue. Do you think that these people will be able to live in security once they have returned to these regions? A: We have already registered a great many Congolese refugees in neighbouring countries who are candidates for voluntary repatriation. However, it will be very difficult to organise their repatriation especially if killings continue, as you have pointed out. Particularly in the east. The most difficult will be in the northeast, but it is also difficult and precarious in the two Kivus. For me, this means that there are still risks, but it cannot be said that we are not doing anything, because in order to organise a repatriation programme, it is necessary that security can be ensured. I have, therefore, launched an appeal to local authorities and others to provide this security. In this sense, repatriation becomes an instrument for peace. Q: UNHCR has begun repatriation programmes for refugees from neighbouring countries, notably Angola and Rwanda. Where do things stand with these efforts? A: Both programmes are well underway. For Angola, this afternoon I am due to visit President Jose Eduardo dos Santos. There are still some problems remaining, but in general, things are positive. As for Rwanda, for example, we have already achieved the repatriation of 58,000 people since 2000 from the neighbouring Kivu provinces. This is no small feat, this is a major achievement. Therefore, I would tell you that our work is not yet finished, but we are making good progress. Q: Are they safe in their countries? A: All indications are that, yes, they are. If not, they would likely have returned to the DRC, while those who are still here would refuse repatriation because of what they had heard from back home. Q: With regard to the 350 refugees who disappeared during their repatriation in May 1999 from Kinshasa to neighbouring Brazzaville, Republic of Congo, what does UNHCR have to say about that? [Editor's note: the "Beach" case is based on the events of May 1999, when thousands of Congolese who had fled fighting that had plagued the capital, Brazzaville, since 1998 chose to return to the city, taking advantage of a "humanitarian corridor" established by UNHCR. Sources present at the time determined that at least 350 individuals had "disappeared" during their return from exile. They have become known as the "Disparus du Beach" - those who disappeared from Brazzaville's port known as "le Beach" on the River Congo.] A: Legal proceedings are underway there [Brazzaville] and we are obliged to see how that advances. Despite that incident, there are many Congolese continuing to return to their country. For example, this was the case for refugees in the Kimaza camp [in Bas-Congo province]. Recently, some 300 returned to their homes. We have a list of more than 300 waiting to return from Gabon. And since this incident to which you have referred, and even a few months prior to it, there have been more than 50,000 people who have returned to Brazzaville - and this is no small number.