Interview with UNDP resident representative

More than 30 percent of Pakistan's 150-million population still live in poverty, despite the significant financial gains of siding with the US-led anti-terrorist alliance and improved fiscal management by the government. Over the past three years the country's economy has improved with US $10 billion in foreign exchange reserves, but illiteracy levels remain high, and diseases are increasing, with child mortality the highest in South Asia. In an interview with IRIN, the United Nations Development Programme (UNDP) resident representative and UN overall country coordinator, Onder Yucer, said the UN agencies in the country were working hard to help the people and the government to improve healthcare, food security, governance, education and gender equality. Yucer said that, although the country had improved its overall macro economy, providing basic services and relief to millions of poor remained challenging. QUESTION: What are the main challenges facing UNDP today ? ANSWER: Let me answer the question in respect of the UN country team as a whole. We have collectively completed, during the last six months, the Common Country Assessment and, based on this, have come to complete agreement with the Pakistani government on the United Nations Development Assistance Framework. The agencies - United Nations Children's Fund (UNICEF), World Food Programme (WFP), UNDP and United Nations Population Fund (UNFPA) - have prepared their country programmes and have successfully negotiated their completion with the government. Q: Has the Musharraf government been any more difficult to deal than previous governments? A: The challenges that Pakistan faces are, as we all agree, in the social sectors - education, health, poverty alleviation and governance. There is a complete consensus among UN agencies that, for instance, devolution reform is crucial, and one of the most promising reforms introduced in Pakistan over the past few years. We are all committed to work with district governments, both at the district and the union council and tehsil levels [tehsil and union councils are administrative divisions comprising villages and small towns]. In one sense the devolution programme has already changed the way we work and cooperate in this country with our counterparts. Our hope is that as the devolution programme takes root, we will, at the project level, be working almost exclusively with the district governments, apart from policy and advocacy orientated projects. Q: We have seen a lot of changes in Pakistan over the past few year with regards to politics and security. How have these events affected UNDP? A: The security issues since late 2001 have been a very big factor in terms of our operations, our projects and presence in Pakistan. We have taken measures continuously during that time to safeguard the integrity of our programme in Pakistan and I think we have succeeded to a very large extent to insulate the UN presence in Pakistan from these security concerns. We had to follow security measures as a community and project personnel in particular, and that made life more complicated and challenging. But I am happy to say, over the past few months we have drastically reduced the level of the security phase in Pakistan. There are a few districts along the border with Afghanistan which remain in phase three [on a five point security alert scale], and we remain, of course, very alert and concerned about terrorist threats that we have seen in many parts of the world. But we do not feel that the UN in Pakistan is being targeted by these threats in any way. Q: UNDP has just released the first ever National Human Development Report on Pakistan. How useful is this document as many other agencies and donors have commissioned such reports? A: We recognise that there is no scarcity of reports on poverty in Pakistan. We have seen several very important studies and assessments. The reason why this report has been launched is that it looks at the same realities of human development in Pakistan from a different perspective and in that sense it is helpful. Q: What kind of different perspectives are we talking about? A: We like to think that the approach used in this report to assess the causes of poverty is really very new in that it does not only look at macro factors and does not confine itself to micro factors either. It concludes that the poor need two things for them to be able to get out of the vicious cycle of poverty. The first is the need for the governance system which it interacts with to be changed in a way to make it more friendly and responsive to their needs. Secondly, that the poor themselves are empowered in a deep and radical way for them to deal with these structures. The report also makes a very original finding - that the second breadwinner in the family is really a crucial factor as to whether the family unit will remain in poverty or will break out of the cycle. That second earner, according to the data happens to be a woman. So these are fundamental facts. Q: How is this document related to Pakistan's latest Poverty Reduction Strategy Paper (PRSP) introduced under the government of President Musharraf? A: It is very much related. Time wise, it is a major piece of work in the space of two years. We have made it available to our counterparts who are working in the PRSP secretariat and to the government as a whole. The chair of the subcommittee on poverty was with us and was the keynote speaker at the launch of the report. Q: You touched earlier on the issue of governance in Pakistan and how it was helping in terms of cooperation at the district levels. What is happening with the second phase of the devolution plan? Is the political wrangling in the country affecting this? A: We have completed second generation projects in support of devolution and they are about to be approved. One of them is quite interesting in that it will help set up a nongovernmental organisation which will be a devolution trust for citizens' empowerment. This trust will have a very strong board of governors and, we hope, a very lean but professional team. It will interact directly with tehsil and union council elected officials. Q: Gender is also part of your mandate. What are you working on at the moment and what has been achieved over the past five years? A: On gender, UNDP's involvement has been very extensive and quite substantial. A few weeks ago we completed the negotiations on a programme approach to our support on gender aspects in this country. We will basically be working over the next five years around this programme which has different modules. It has very ambitious goals one of which is to ensure that up to 40,000 elected councillors have the benefit of capacity building and training - and in some cases even basic training such as literacy - but more, of course, in other aspects of community and social development. The second initiative, which is far-reaching under this umbrella, is a nationwide survey on family security. This will collect facts and data and will assess the status of violence against women in this country, as well as other impediments to a healthy, robust and happy family life in Pakistan. These are just two examples of the programme which is now ready for approval. Q: UNDP has recently agreed with the Pakistani government to rehabilitate areas where Afghan refugees once lived, as many are returning home. This is seen by some as being controversial, in the sense that the Afghans were left to live in squalor and were not given any help in rehabilitating the areas. What is your response to this? A: The project is rehabilitation of refugee-hosting areas, and the rehabilitation is designed to do two things. Firstly, look at the environmental degradation, and secondly, the wear and tear on the social services. We have to keep in mind that Pakistan has been hosting refugees, from Afghanistan mainly, in very large numbers for the past 20 years. I think Pakistan has done an excellent job in hosting refugees and providing security cover and protection, and now that there is a road map for repatriation from camps and rural towns and villages, we felt that the hosting communities also deserve some attention from the international community. They have willingly shared the sometimes very little assets they had, including the environment, and it is only fair that they are supported too. Q: How do you see the future of development shaping up in Pakistan? A: Pakistan has done remarkably well in getting the macro framework right during the last few years. It definitely has a solid stability in its financial system in terms of its monetary and fiscal policies. Their results are very evident. Pakistan is enjoying over US $ 10 billion foreign exchange reserves for the first time in history. Inflation is in very low single digits. The growth rate has been respectable compared to most countries in this region, and even globally, at five percent. Interest rates have fallen drastically, which is, of course, good for consumer financing and investment. So wherever you look at the macro level it indeed shows improvement. The challenge remains in the social field, and unless Pakistan improves the health and educational status of the people, it will not achieve its potential. When we talk about poverty, with between 30 and 33 percent of the population living in poverty, that is nearly 40 million people out of 150 million. This is a huge challenge and something that cannot really wait long to be addressed. We have seen very promising initiatives by the government and the UN will continue its support to the government to eliminate extreme poverty as soon as possible.