Interview with Kamel Morjane, UNHCR Assistant High Commissioner

Angola's peace process has spurred preparations for the eventual return of 470,000 Angolan refugees sheltering in neighbouring countries. The UN refugee agency's (UNHCR) Assistant High Commissioner Kamel Morjane, toured Angola and Zambia last week to assess the conditions for the repatriation of people forced from their homes by close to three decades of civil war. Morjane spoke to IRIN about the anticipated spontaneous return of 80,000 Angolans between now and the end of the year. He referred to the "benchmarks" that needed to be in place before UNHCR could assist with a planned repatriation of Angolans from neighbouring countries. Ahead of World Refugee Day on Thursday, he also explained why women and vulnerability was the theme of this year's message. QUESTION: Angola is the critical issue for Southern Africa in terms of refugees, can you describe what your mission was aimed at achieving? ANSWER: Our mission was mainly to finalise the operation planned for the repatriation of Angolan refugees from neighbouring countries. Certainly the new developments in Angola are positive and I hope - this is a feeling we got in Angola - that peace is irreversible this time. But it doesn't mean that everything is [in place] and it is clear that the country will face now a huge effort to reconcile and reconstruct to which UNHCR is ready, together with the rest of the UN system, to play a role especially with the repatriation of the 470,000 Angolan refugees mainly from Zambia, [Democratic Republic of Congo] DRC and Namibia. This is in fact what we have been trying to do during this visit together with a technical team sent to the different countries ... We believe that until the end of the year we will have only spontaneous repatriation because this big operation [of an organised repatriation will take time to] be prepared. We can all imagine the consequences of the war when it comes to infrastructure, when it comes to the socio-economic conditions of Angola. There are places where nobody has been able to visit yet because of the [lack of] roads, the landmines etc. We have to be ready, but we would like to profit from the next six months when we are expecting spontaneous repatriation in order to prepare the organised repatriation that will start early next year. For this year, however, we believe - and this is an assumption - that about 80,000 people will go back on their own ... Q: What are the minimum conditions that UNHCR would like to see in place before an organised mass return? A: Certainly the first thing is security. It's obvious there is a need for a presence in the regions to where refugees will be coming back to ... The issue of landmines is also something we are taking very seriously. The community services and infrastructure, all these are necessary in order to take the responsibility and the initiative of encouraging people to go back home or to promote their repatriation. There are certainly some benchmarks we have discussed and that should be taken into consideration. I hope that during these six months we have now at hand, that we can be able to prepare this together with the authorities - because this is also important, because first of all they are Angolans going back to their own country. We have insisted very much to the Angolan authorities [that they] take the lead for that ... [and] the commitment we got from the government was that they welcome their people back, and it's clear they would like to have it, as we do, in an organised manner. Q: It's a big task for any government to provide all this security and landmine clearance etc, do you foresee the refugees coming back to a central area before being allowed to freely go back to their regions of origin? And will you work with the Angolan government to help raise donor money to assist them? A: I think both. There are those who will repatriate spontaneously until the end of the year (we have already 15,000 who have repatriated on their own). Of the 80,000 whom we are envisaging, they will go back to their places of origin and certainly it will be difficult to organise, especially when there is nobody there yet to organise them - neither from the government side, neither the humanitarian agencies and certainly not UNHCR. We are just present in the north, in the provinces of Zaire and Uige, but with a very, very light and limited presence because let's face it, I think everybody was taken by surprise with the peace process ... This is why I say for the first period certainly there will not be any kind of organisation and people will go back to wherever they like. The organised repatriation, yes, there will be transport, transit camps and the usual measures we take to make sure that everything works as it should on the operational side. On the second part of your question, on the resources needed for that, we'll be going to our donors for this operation. We have not yet budgeted since the technical teams are still in the region, they are supposed to go today to Namibia to finalise the repatriation plan for the 25,000 Angolans we have in Namibia. But I hope that by, I would say the first week in July, we will be able to have a [budget] figure for 18 months. Our plan is to prepare something for the period starting from 1 July of this year to 31 December next year. I have no idea how much this will be, but I hope that, for two reasons, [the donors will be generous]. Firstly, because any operation for repatriation is always something positive ... and second, I think with the commitment the Angolan authorities have shown us I hope this will materialise also into a financial commitment from their part, and this will also encourage the donors to contribute generously in order to make this operation possible ... Repatriation will certainly be, in my view, a contribution to the peace and stability of Angola and for more positive action when it comes to the neighbouring countries, and I'm thinking in particular of the DRC. Q: Are you confident the benchmarks can be met? A: It's not easy, I'm certainly not over-optimistic about it, I'm quite realistic about it and certainly it needs to be worked out through, in particular, the tripartite mechanisms that have been set up already - and this is another positive element, that we have had already agreements signed sometime ago when we thought that repatriation was about to start in the early 90s. It was good to hear the authorities in Luanda say they considered they are still bound by the agreements that we have signed with them and the neighbouring countries and we can consider this could be a basis for trilateral cooperation with UNHCR and the government of Angola on one side, and the governments of the asylum countries on the other. This will certainly help, and this was decided yesterday that we should go as soon as possible for the first meetings of these three tripartite commissions in order to make sure that we are addressing all the difficulties that could arise, and certainly they are [many] ... It's obvious it will not be an easy operation, it needs a lot of preparation, needs a lot of commitment from all the parties, but I think we have no choice, we have to start. Q: On your tip to Zambia, talking to the refugees there, what were their impressions? A: It's clear they are all looking forward to going back home. You can have different views, this is also human, there are some who are more prudent than others. There are some who are saying that this is not the first time and that we have to watch how the situation will be before we decide to go home. Others, and especially those who have come a little late, those who arrived recently during the last two years in particular, maybe they are more inclined to go back immediately. This is why we are considering a certain number who will not even wait for any assistance from UNHCR or any other agency and will go back immediately. But globally, there is a positive attitude, but people are of course waiting to see how the situation will be on the other side - let's not forget that when they are in Zambia or DRC they are getting all the assistance they need. They are getting services, they are getting education and it's certainly necessary to deliver the same kind of services if we want the refugees to go back ... Q: What sort of assistance on the other side, you talked of schools and health, is this a long term commitment by UNHCR? A: I think it certainly will not be a long term commitment on the part of UNHCR. Our plan, as I told you, is to have the six months for the spontaneous repatriation from now until the end of the year. And we have a plan for two years from 2003 to 2004 for the organised repatriation which means that our plan is to be there from, I would say two-and-a-half to three years maximum, as we cannot continue to be in a country where the refugees are back. It becomes the responsibility of the government to take care of their nationals especially when it comes to a country like Angola, where we believe the resources that have been used up to now in the war can certainly be used to help the people and the reconstruction - although one has to be realistic, it's not an easy job for them. It will take years. Q: For World Refugee Day, the main themes are women and vulnerability - what is the message you are trying to get over? A: I think its obvious that for us, the situation of especially refugee women is a major concern for us. It's been the case for years now, we have been insisting on that and we have been trying when it comes to the protection of women in particular, we have been trying to take all appropriate measures in order guarantee their protection, both when it comes to those who are in the camps as well as those urban refugees. This is why we wanted to have Refugee Day focusing on women, not only because of what we have been doing, but for the role we want women to play in the refugee situation because usually they have to take care of the whole family. They have to play sometimes the role of both the mother and the father, and I think this is also a kind of recognition of their role, and what they have been facing ... Refugee Day itself is certainly an occasion to sensitise national and international opinion about the situation of refugees today, and the need for additional effort by everybody in order to alleviate their suffering. Of course, when it comes to Africa, we all know the role UNHCR is playing, and the fact that Africa for us is a priority. This is where we have the majority of our programmes and our staff, and this is where also, I must say, we have the most generous attitude when it comes to asylum, when it comes to hospitality for refugees. This is why its important for us to underline all these elements during this day. Q: The sexual exploitation scandal that emerged in camps in West Africa - was it a wake up call not just to UNHCR but the humanitarian community as a whole? A: I think yes, this was something that shocked us. We knew that there were certainly sexual abuses and exploitation, as everywhere in the world, it's not only West Africa. In many places where there is needs and vulnerability [exploitation] is linked to that. We were shocked by the fact that the report concluded that humanitarian workers are involved in this exploitation, we knew that there was exploitation, what we didn't know was the fact that humanitarian workers [were implicated]. I think we have taken all the measures, both when it comes to the prevention in the future, not only in West Africa, but we have enlarged this to all our programmes all over the world and involved all our managers all over the world. We are ready and expecting the investigation to be over and if there is any indication [of impropriety] all disciplinary measures will be taken and I think the [UN] Secretary-General did announce it, and the High Commissioner for Refugees did announce it - there will certainly be zero tolerance for any kind of abuse if it has been committed by any one of our staff members ... But this certainly should not in any case suggest that all humanitarian workers [are involved] ... We have to recognise that thousands of our people all over the world ... continue to work very very hard to assist and to help people - they are doing it in God knows what kinds of conditions, and sometimes they pay with their lives for that. One should certainly not forget this, even if we can have here and there a few cases [of misconduct], I think we have to make the distinction ...