IRIN interview with Russian ambassador to Pakistan

As the international community re-establishes its presence in Afghanistan, one of the more interesting players to return is Russia. Soviet troops withdrew from the Central Asian country in 1989 after having invaded it a decade earlier, leaving behind a difficult legacy for both nations. Calling it a tragic mistake, Eduard Shevchenko, the Russian ambassador to Pakistan, told IRIN what Moscow’s role in the reconstruction process would be and what the humanitarian community must now do to maintain long-term peace and stability in the region. The veteran diplomat maintained that without security in Afghanistan - reconstruction would be impossible. QUESTION: The international community has committed itself to the rebuilding of Afghanistan. What role do you see Russia playing in a post-Taliban Afghanistan? ANSWER: Besides political and humanitarian assistance, we have assisted the Northern Alliance very much. It is well known that the quick victory over the Taliban was possible because of our military assistance. But now we are placing our attention on humanitarian assistance and the reconstruction of the Afghanistan’s fully destroyed economy. In the past, Russia has been the biggest assister of Afghanistan. We constructed over 300 enterprises there. These have been tremendously destroyed during the last ten or twenty years and are in need of reconstruction. Another area we are looking at is health assistance. They have no doctors or any assistance in this field. Reconstruction of roads is also very important. Without this, no humanitarian assistance or food can be brought in. We are also looking at the reconstruction of bridges, of agriculture, as well as de-mining activities. There are tremendous amounts of mines in the Afghanistan. Q: How concerned is your government over the current state of security in the country? What implications does it have regionally? A: Security is one of the main issues that need to be settled. Without it, reconstruction is impossible. We are very happy with the central, preliminary government. We are looking for the coordination and cooperation of different nationalities and tribes to work together. As you know, for the last 20 years, during this civil war, all of [Afghanistan’s] territories belonged to different warlords, and there was no law in the country. Security is now the biggest problem to be solved. This is possible only under a central government and the establishment of a united army and security force. As you know, one of the last decisions by the Karzai government was the banning of control of the roads by the warlords. It is impossible to govern in the country where the warlords govern in every area. Another area where we will assist them is the reconstruction of a united Afghan army, their security forces, and their entire police force. Q: Do you think real peace has been achieved in Afghanistan now? A: I think peace has been achieved in Afghanistan, but we cannot say it is 100 percent. There are some areas and territories where the warlords are still quite strong. In some mountain areas, there remain some Taliban elements present. But, as I mentioned, the main danger is the differences between different ethnic groups. These have always existed and can exist for some time. Afghanistan will need another one or two years for things to really settle. This coincides with the vision and the setting up of activities of the provisional government. Q: Earlier this month, Afghan interim administration leader, Hamid Karzai, met with your foreign minister, Igor Ivanov, in Kabul. What was the objective of that discussion? A: The objective of that discussion was what we are discussing with you now. Firstly, the establishment of a peaceful settlement, the creation of peaceful conditions for the current government, as well as urgent humanitarian and other types of assistance to Afghanistan. We in Russia, as their neighbour and the country which knows Afghanistan’s problems and troubles very well, is particularly interested in the return of Afghans back to their country - allowing them to begin a new life. To do this security, peaceful coexistence and jobs are necessary. One of the main problems existing now is the lack of work for people now. Q: Your government has had a troubled past in Afghanistan and now wishes to participate in its rebuilding. How do you reconcile those two things? A: We feel our responsibility for Afghanistan. For a long time we have been very friendly with this country. We have assisted them and helped them more than many other countries in the world. However, there was a negative time that came to this soil. It was the decision of the former top leaders of the Soviet Union to invade this country. The leaders and the entire population of today’s democratic Russia condemned this invasion. We feel our responsibility and our sorrow for what happened. I worked in the Kremlin during the time of this decision. But the decision was taken by a very narrow group of the top leaders of the political bureau. Other members of the central committee or in the party didn’t know about it at all. This decision was wrong. It was a tragedy - not just for Afghanistan, but for Russia as well. We lost a lot of people. We apologise and feel responsible. What is interesting, however – up to now, coming back to Afghanistan, we don’t feel any hostility from the common Afghan people. They remember the previous cooperation and assistance that existed between our two countries. The struggle and invasion of the country happened because of the misunderstanding of the leaders, not because of the common people. Our voluntary withdrawal from Afghanistan was because the new government understood that we had made a mistake. Our soldiers no longer saw any aim in struggling in this country at all. They could not understand for what interest they were fighting. Q: How have the new Afghan administration responded to your efforts? A: We have very good relations with the new administration because of our assistance to them in overthrowing the Taliban. During the hardest of times, we assisted them militarily and with humanitarian aid, as well [as, recently] by our common efforts with anti-terrorist forces. On one side America destroyed the camps of the Taliban, while, on the other, we assisted the Northern Alliance to move further into the centre of the country, allowing them to fight and overwhelm Taliban forces. Q: How do you see relations between your two countries in 10 years' time? A: It is difficult to say what will happen in the future, as there are always unpredictable circumstances. However, the idea is to establish good neighbourly relations with Afghanistan. The Soviet Union was guilty of the invasion. Given the new situation in this country [Russia], we feel responsible for what happened... We now look forward to establishing good neighbourly relations with the new government; to assist in providing conditions that Afghanistan will be democratic and loyal to its relations and cooperation with its neighbours, making it an honorable member of the world community. Q: Regarding Russia’s contribution in the reconstruction of the country, what specific areas or sectors will your government be involved in? Can you give us some concrete examples of that work? A: One example that I mentioned earlier is in the area of health. We have supplied a hospital with our doctors and medical staff. Already they have completed 50 serious operations and some 5,500 services to the common people. Now that hospital, with full equipment and everything, has been given to the Afghans. The problem now, however, is that Afghanistan does not have enough medical staff. Therefore, they have asked us and we have agreed to have our staff members to stay for some time to assist and help them, particularly in areas of serious or difficult cases or surgeries. Additionally, on the agenda is the supply of another hospital to Afghanistan. Another example of our direct, quick and full assistance was the reconstruction, together with French specialists, of the Salang tunnel. Constructed earlier by us, this is the highest pass in the world. Recently we reconstructed and de-mined this facility of over 7,000 mines. The tunnel is now functioning, but the reconstruction is continuing. This pass is significant, as it connects northern and southern Afghanistan. Without it, the time in transferring humanitarian assistance between the two parts would be significantly greater. We have also established a pontoon bridge along the Pyandzh river between Tajikistan and Afghanistan. Much of the international humanitarian assistance - for example the World Food Programme - comes from their stocks located in Tajikistan and Kyrgyzstan. Without the pontoon bridge this would be impossible as there are no bridges there. We have taken upon ourselves the transportation of this assistance, providing some 300 trucks, working round the clock. Also on the agenda for the future is the construction of a stable bridge over the Pyandzh. Q: Approximately how much in dollar terms has your government committed for the reconstruction efforts? A: As our contributions were not declared at the Tokyo conference, it is difficult to say. Our main efforts are being directed on concrete areas of reconstruction in this country rather than financial assistance. All of what we have done already, i.e. transporting supplies, costs money. There are some 157 people working on this mission alone. Our idea is not to look at long-term areas, but to concentrate on the most urgent humanitarian needs of the Afghan people now - food, medicine, winter items, etc. According to our estimates, we have spent between US $12 [million] and US $15 million over the past two months alone, and will continue to do so. Q: In light of the impact Afghanistan has had on the region, do you expect Central Asia to become more stable in 2002 now? A: I think so. One of the most dramatic differences with Afghanistan now was that earlier there were dozens of military, mercenary, and international terrorist camps. In these camps could be found Arabs, Chechens, Uighurs, Tajiks, Uzbeks and others - all preparing for the further intervention of neighbouring countries – including our Russian Chechnya. Most of those fighting there [Chechnya] had been trained in those military camps. Now most of the people continuing to fight in the mountains of Chechnya are Arabs. This was of great concern to us, as well as our allies – Tajikistan, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan and other countries of Central Asia. There was a time when there was a civil war in Tajikistan, because some Tajik extremists had come back from Afghanistan. We put an end to this civil war and we still maintain forces along the border there. Tajik forces were unable to oppose such an invasion. There were many Tajiks in Afghanistan who tried to bring this fundamentalist and religious extremism to Tajikistan. We have now included some of these people in the Tajik government, which have been moderate in opposition, and the situation has become settled. All other extremists remain on the territory of Afghanistan. Uzbekistan has also requested assistance, fearing an invasion of Uzbek fundamentalists from Afghan territory that have been trained there. Now we have put an end to such invasions from Afghanistan to Central Asia, and these countries are happy with this development. Why do you think they participated and cooperated with the coalition’s war on terrorism? Why do you think they provided America and its allies with bases and logistics? For their security. Having cooperated with the United States, with Britain, with Russia, they now feel more comfortable and secure. Q: Do you feel the threat of another Islamic insurgency is over in Central Asia? A: It is impossible to say. Every country has its own domestic fundamentalism. We in Russia have our own nationalist or fundamentalist elements in our mostly Muslim areas. This is a fact. But they are a small minority and not so dangerous - not for Russia, not for the Central Asian republics. Most of this fundamentalist, extreme form of thinking originated in Afghanistan. They were a minority, but they were strong, because they had been specially trained for terrorist actions, and were supported by Saudi Arabia and other Arab countries, which gave them financial support. Q: What role, if any, should an international peacekeeping mission have in the country, and what role will Russia play? A: We have been burnt in Afghanistan before and are not prepared to have that happen again. From the very beginning, in our discussions with the US government, we have expressed our intentions very clearly. We will not send any soldiers to Afghanistan. Our presence can only be of a humanitarian nature. This is our very clear policy. Q: Recent events have greatly elevated the importance of Afghanistan. What does the international community need to do now? A: The international community must first of all assist Afghanistan to overcome this very difficult period. It must help to reconstruct the country, to create conditions for the peaceful coexistence and to assist in providing jobs for the people. For the past 20 years, they only know war. Many of them are illiterate and uneducated, and are now looking for assistance. Professionally speaking, they have no doctors, nor any teachers. Recently, they have requested assistance from Pakistan in the recruitment of some female teachers, as the Taliban succeeded in destroying female education and female society as a whole. There is quite a comprehensive array of needs for this country, including financial. I should also add that it is extremely important as to where this money will go and to whom. I don’t want to criticise Pakistan, but during a recent visit by Karzai, the government gave him money in cash. This is very dangerous, as the money can be misappropriated. With financial assistance, it is very important for there to be strong monitoring of the situation. The United Nations should coordinate some kind of monitoring unit in this regard.