Interview with Pakistan's Human Rights Chairperson

As chairperson of the Human Rights Commission of Pakistan (HRCP), Afrasiab Khattak's outspoken advocacy on behalf of Afghan refugees in Pakistan has earned him international recognition as a leading human rights monitor in the region. He has challenged government policy and practice aimed at deporting, or curbing new influxes. In an interview with IRIN to mark Human Rights Day on Monday, 10 December, Khattak said he was concerned about Afghan refugees in Pakistan and that the government and international agencies should be doing more to assist them during the current crisis in the region. QUESTION: In recent months, there have been reports of the persecution of Afghan refugees living in Pakistan. Do you believe there is harassment of Afghans living here, and if so, what pattern does this usually take? ANSWER: There is certainly harassment. The refugee crisis took a turn for the worse during the last year, when the government of Pakistan adopted very harsh policies. In the last year, there has been forced deportation, arbitrary deportations, arrests without due process. The main problem is that this country is not a signatory to international conventions on refugees and there is no national law in place. This creates a legal vacuum in which refugees are very vulnerable. In addition, Afghan refugees come from a country that does not have a responsible government that could look after the interests of its citizens abroad. So these citizen are without any state support whatsoever. Pakistan has also dragged its feet on the recognition of new refugees for a very long time. There are people who are in the country for the past year who have yet to become formal refugees [in the eyes of] the host government. Q: How many Afghans are arrested and detained at present and on what charges? A: There is no constant figure. As for deportations, even officials accept about 4,000 deportations but we believe there are more. The number of Afghan arrested under different charges are in the hundreds. They are arrested, they are released, they are arrested, so there is no constant figure. But as they are not aware of the legal processes they are very vulnerable. Q: Can you elaborate on this whole procedure of deportations? A: Deportation was a policy. The police were asked to arrest Afghans and take them into vehicles and hand them over to political authorities in Khyber Agency [Tribal Areas administration], who would take them to [the Pakistan-Afghanistan border crossing of] Towarkhan and push them over the border. Now this is in total violation of international law and our own "Foreigner Act", which requires involvement of legal courts. But in this case police bypass courts and arbitrarily deport people. Secondly, Afghans become the first victims of police suspicion and police atrocities. They are singled out off vehicles, they are searched and fleeced by police. They have been having very difficult times recently. Q: What in your opinion is the main cause of tensions between Afghans and host communities? A: There have not been significant tensions because Afghan refugees have been present in this country for more than two decades and in very huge numbers. This is because both the host community and refugees have much in common and the shared culture provides a strong basis for peaceful coexistence. But the presence of refugees has burdened our social fabric and civic amenities. There has been great pressure on our hospitals and the transport system. There is competition in the local labour market and in business. So this has led to problems in small number, which has never been very harsh. Q: In comparison to Pakistan, are Afghan refugees better treated in other countries in the region, for instance Iran? A: In spite of all the problems, Pakistan has been their main sanctuary and let me say that the attitude of the government of Pakistan has changed recently. In the 1980s when [international] aid was available, Pakistan was generous and treated Afghan refugees hospitably. If you compare it with other countries of course, Pakistani treatment is far better. In many Central Asian countries Afghans are not allowed to cross over as Uzbekistan and Tajikistan have sealed their borders. In some cases they even laid land mines at their borders to stop refugees from crossing over. Q: How has the recent fighting in Afghanistan affected Afghans, in particular, those who have not been officially registered by the authorities? A: Again this is a very sad story because when this crisis started the coalition against terrorism declared that it would have a three pronged strategy; military, political and humanitarian concerns. Unfortunately, the humanitarian dimension was missing. For example, initially it was decided that the government of Pakistan would build one hundred camps to accommodate fresh refugees. But when the bombardment started, people started fleeing towards Pakistan and the borders were closed. Those who could, slipped into Pakistan by mule tracks or by far flung routes. As they were not legal refugees, they scattered and went to relatives, friends and remained invisible. This increased the burden on our social fabric and deprived the international community's ability to identify and assist these new refugees. So this again was a very myopic policy. It was not criticised by concerned parties and so the Pakistani government was not persuaded to change its policy. Q: Are Afghans of a different ethnicity more vulnerable than the Pashtuns? Were there any reprisal incidences of violence in the aftermath of fighting in the northern province of Konduz and the Qalai Janghi prison revolt incident? A: There was no such distinction before the mid-nineties. But after this war in Taloqan and Takhar, it started changing and there was discrimination against refugees coming from the north and central Afghanistan. The Pakistani authorities were more hesitant to accept people from the north as refugees. In terms of economic problems, we understand the problems faced by the Pakistani government. I don't think the government can tackle these problems alone and the international community should definitely help. But when people come to our borders or enter our country because of very genuine reasons, I don't think we have any right to turn them back. The recent crisis has affected refugees on ethnic grounds. Unfortunately, the Taliban and their supporters in Pakistan, who used the Islamic card, have switched over to the ethnic card, probably out of frustration. They are preaching hatred against refugees with Uzbek and Tajik origins but I don't think it's a very universal problem. Of course people were sad to see what happened at Qalai Jhangi, when prisoners-of-war were murdered in cold blood in total violations of international law and conventions. But as far as local people are concerned, they wouldn't target innocent refugees who have nothing to do with the situation. Q: Are you concerned about plans to move Afghan refugees of ethnic Tajik and Uzbek origin to new camps in Pakistan's Tribal Areas? A: Yes, I am definitely concerned about that policy. Unfortunately, the refugee policy of the government of Pakistan is very irrational. First of all, the Tribal Areas is a mountainous region and doesn't have much space to accommodate huge numbers of people. Then there is a scarcity of water and as a forested area, there will be an environmental disaster if refugees live there for a long time. Moreover, because we don't have our regular police or court system in the area, any clash between local people and refugees can take an ugly turn which would require military intervention. We don't have organised political parties and NGOs are not as widespread in Tribal Areas as in the "settled districts". These groups can prevail upon [local] people to extend more humanitarian behaviour towards refugees. So I think it's very irrational. It can create real problems and these problems should not be underestimated. Anything that happens in and around refugee camps in Tribal Areas on ethnic grounds would not remain confined to these areas. It will have regional repercussions. I think the government of Pakistan is better advised to reconsider this policy. Q: With an Afghan interim administration planned to start on the 22 December, are you concerned that Pakistan may be tempted to push Afghans back home before conditions inside have stabilised? A: The repatriation of refugees should be high on the agenda of a new Afghan government. They are conscious of that, but I think it will need a bit of time for any government to create conducive conditions for the voluntary return of refugees. I think the government of Pakistan should again not adopt a short sighted policy. We have hosted refugees for a very long time and a little longer won't make much difference. So it may take six months to one year for a new government in Afghanistan to start a systematic repatriation of Afghan refugees. Q: What needs to be done to improve conditions for Afghan refugees and asylum seekers in the country? A: First of all, the Pakistan government should declare that it respects international conventions on refugees. It is very important that this legal vacuum disappears. Secondly, there should be a coordinated effort with the help of the international community to identify and help new refugees as they are a burden. I have seen a rise in beggars and scavengers in Peshawar, a rise in numbers of street children, all because of this scattering of new refugees. As long as they are in Pakistan, they should be provided with all possible facilities that are granted under international law. The international community should take an active part in this, especially the coalition. A small fraction of money which they are spending on military operations can change a lot for refugees and other displaced persons. So I hope that things are better for refugees as long as they stay in Pakistan. We hope that preparations should be made for an orderly, voluntary, and dignified repatriation of Afghans once peace and stability returns to the country. Q: What is the role of Pakistani civil society in this whole process? A: Pakistani civil society has been raising its voice and Pakistani civil society is now poised to institutionalise its relation with the Afghan civil society that has emerged in the refugee camps. I think it is going to be an asset for the democratic movement and human rights movement in the region in the future. As for as HRCP is concerned, it will monitor the situation of refugees. It will raise its voice to solve the problems faced by refugees. We know that there are other organisations that are trying to solve the refugees problems in their own way, there are charitable organisations who are helping Afghan refugees. I think Pakistani civil society has played some role in helping Afghan refugees.