IRIN Interview with the Head of UNHCR Kakuma, Dr Saber Azam

The following is an interview held at the Kakuma refugee camp in northwestern Kenya last week with Dr Saber Azam, the senior UNHCR official in Kakuma. Q. How seriously are you taking the resettlement issue which is cited as the cause of the recent fire which razed about 1,000 houses belonging to the Somali community in the camp? A. I have not yet received the result of investigations carried out by the Kenyan government to determine the cause of the fire. But I would like to reiterate that resettlement is normally a solution that is offered to a very limited number of people simply because no country in the world would be in position to take the over 87,000 refugees from Kakuma or the 120,000 from Dadaab bearing in mind that Kenya is not the only country with refugees. In the world we have practically 22 million refugees and people of concern to UNHCR. Refugees in Kenya are privileged because the numbers resettled is eight to 10 times more than the number of refugees resettled from elsewhere in the world. Q. Is resettlement provided for in the regulations governing the stay of refugees in a country? A. Resettlement is one of the durable solutions. But I would like to emphasise that the most interesting and appropriate solution, which can cover a lot of refugees, is safe repatriation back home. This would imply a political settlement and the establishment of peace and security in the homeland of the refugees. UNHCR can play little part in the political and military dimension. All we do is to hope that the situation in the country of origin improves so that we can be in a position to repatriate the refugees. The second solution that we are prioritizing is local integration in the absence of repatriation. Huge numbers of refugees have no alternative except to integrate into the communities of the host country. At this stage, we have only four countries, the US, Canada, Australia and, to some extent, New Zealand which offer resettlement opportunities on a regular basis. It would be very difficult to resettle the massive number of refugees to these countries. Refugees have often overestimated the capacity of UNHCR on this aspect. Q. What pressures does UNHCR face in catering for such a large number of refugees? A. A lot of pressure, particularly in an area like Kakuma where the provision of water is very difficult and the local population itself is affected by drought. The little amount of resources that the international community mobilizes to cater for refugees would not be sufficient in the sense that the situation in areas like south Sudan is deteriorating and we are receiving more and more people. We are coping with the situation satisfactorily and if I consider that even after many months of drought, we are still able to provide between 18-19 litres of water per person in a day. Q. What are the daily challenges you face? A. We are dealing with people from eight nationalities who have their own conflicts within themselves and in a way, overestimate the intervention capacity of the UN. Our mandate is to protect them and also bring basic assistance to them. Their number is increasing on a daily basis... There is a lot of psychological burden on the refugees and we just have to realise that the situation is complicated and that we are dealing with people who are probably the most vulnerable in the world. We do our job with dedication and belief in what we are doing. We also realise that the greatest element of success is to share everything with them. We share information with them, we work with them to make sure we do not create the "donors of aid and receivers of aid" situation because this would be a sure way of inviting problems in the camp. But if you make a team composed of the UN, NGOs, and the refugees then you will find that quite often you have no problems. Q. What is the current security situation in northwestern Kenya? A. With regards to security in the region, I would I like to point out that we ourselves in the UN system are in Phase III security level. This implies that the security situation is precarious. Q. The Oromo community living in the camp have expressed fear for their security. They have talked about shooting incidents and even kidnappings. Is it true that there is insecurity in the camp? A. We know about the particular situation of the Oromos in the camp...UNHCR has shown great concern about their security. The government of Kenya has also pledged its support to make sure that the safety of all refugees is ensured. We are pleased to report that since January 1999 we have not had serious security incidents in Kakuma. In the case of the Oromos, in 1997, we reached a "gentleman's agreement" with the local population and we talked to the refugees and their elders not to deal in animal business since this is the lifeline of communities in northwestern Kenya. The refugees had in the past kept animals and this caused friction with the local communities. We requested the refugees that while the international community provided basic assistance for them, they should leave the animal business to the Turkana population. Because of the friction, we had intruders who entered the camp and shot refugees. There was even loss of life, but the cause of the dispute was financial. We don't think the local population has a problem with the presence of refugees in the area at all, except if refugees get involved in the animal business. Q. What is the level of politicisation in the camps? Are the refugees actively involved in the political affairs of their countries of origin? A. We must agree that refugees are human beings like all of us and have rights of political opinion. By being refugees, they do not lose that right. I may imagine that all refugees in Kakuma camp have political opinions and views, but in no way are such views or opinions expressed against anyone in the camps and the refugees know it very well. The refugees are very obedient in regard to the laws of the country of asylum. Communities coexist peacefully - even the most populous like the Sudanese [65,122] and the Somalis [19,373]. They have lived together peacefully despite their religious differences [Christians and Muslims respectively]. But it is important to note that events going on in the refugees' countries of origin often affect them because sometimes the information reaches them in a distorted way. It is important to note that after serious fighting among Sudanese communities in January 1999, we initiated a year-long negotiation process among different Sudanese communities within the camp. On 28 January this year, we had an overall Sudanese peace agreement in which about 1,000 refugee leaders, elders, community leaders and intellectuals attended and traditionally buried weapons of war. Q. What about allegations of the presence of militias in the camps, specifically, extremist Hutu militias? A. First of all, the Great Lakes case load in Kakuma camp is very limited. The numbers of Burundians, Rwandans and Congolese are at the maximum 1,000...We have refugees of these nationalities who were cleared by the eligibility committees in Nairobi, which is composed of a number of government bodies and UNHCR is just an observer. These individuals granted asylum are referred to Kakuma and we host them here. Q. So, are such claims false? A. We cannot pronounce ourselves on what is going on outside the camps. There was in 1993 a [UN] report...that expressed concern on the issue particularly in the northwest of Kenya. Q. What about claims of gun-running in the camps? A. The camp is an open area with no fences because, from a human rights point of view, we wanted to promote the interaction of the refugees and the local population. I really do not think that there are guns in the camps. We have heard in the past of very serious clashes among refugees and I always say that if the refugees had guns, they would have used them. But thank God, it has not been the case. Furthermore, in 1997, Kenya's Office of the President recommended that a high-level joint investigation team comprising government officials and UNHCR visit Kakuma and find out if there were guns in the camp. The team found out that there were no firearms in the refugees' possession. To boost security within the camp, UNHCR has contracted some Kenya Police Reservists (KPR) who are not uniformed but move around the camps. They are the ones who have guns but for security purposes. Q. Is there a possibility of the local community encroaching on the camp because of famine? A. We are concerned about the famine situation in the area. UNHCR had a very proactive policy in January, knowing the suffering of the people. We held a single largest food distribution to the local population covering about 16,000 individuals around the camp and in Kakuma town. We believe that the amount of food distributed would be sufficient for three months and a little bit more based on the economic or consumption strategy of a household. We are concerned because we may not be in a position to do a second food distribution. We know that there are sporadic food distributions in the area by other aid agencies and we hope that the international community will mobilise itself to respond to the situation in a very efficient and constructive way.