Interview with the head of Human Rights Commission

As chairwoman of Afghanistan's Human Rights Commission, Sima Samar has a huge task to hand and daunting challenges ahead in a country riddled with warlordism, ethnic and tribal tensions and the continuing war on terrorism. A long-time human rights campaigner, Samar told IRIN in the capital, Kabul, that the commission would propagate human-rights education towards helping people decide on sensitive issues such as setting up a war crimes tribunal. She stressed that the inclusion of two women as ministers in the cabinet did not mean that all Afghan women were emancipated. On the reports about the recent discovery of mass graves in northern Afghanistan, Samar pointed out that these were not the first such graves brought to light. Any investigation into the matter should also cover all such abuses over the past 23 years, she added. QUESTION: What are the major functions of the Human Rights Commission, and do you have the required support and resources? ANSWER: The commission is an independent body established under the auspices of the Bonn agreement. We have human-rights education that works for the inclusion of human rights into the curriculum of the schools and other sectors of education. We work on the advancement of women and children and transitional justice. We also do monitoring and investigation of human rights abuses. We don't have much resources - we don't have a well-established office, actually. We have a staff of around 100 across the country, including 11 human-rights commissioners. Q: How would you describe the current state of human rights in Afghanistan? A: The state of human rights in the country is not very good. First of all, the people do not know much about it. We are coming out of 23 years of war, and it's not easy to bring the society after this long violence to the situation that some people will expect. Q: What are your major concerns regarding human rights in the country? A: There are a lot of concerns about the human rights in the country. We are still not in a position to have proper respect for human rights, because we don't have our national army or a national police force and we don't have law and order. There are hardly any functional systems and institutions to protect the people's rights. Q: How do you regard the recent discoveries of mass graves in northern Afghanistan? A: I don't have a lot of information personally. I just read about it in the newspapers. I am, first of all, not sure that everything is true. Secondly, its not the first mass grave discovered in the country. Hopefully it is the last mass grave. If we really want to investigate the mass graves we have to start from 23 years ago, and there are hundreds of such graves in the country. We are in a situation where [when] something like this happens, [it] is politicised and used against other people. It's the continuation of a cycle of violence, and we have to go and see the actual reasons behind such incidents. Q: Do you support a war crimes tribunal in the country, and what particular role your organisation can play in that? A: We are just beginning our work. We don't have a proper office yet, and we cannot say that we will bring somebody to justice. What we would like to do is to disseminate human-rights education and information and let the people decide about it. At least we would like those who have committed human rights abuses to apologise to the people. Q: With the banning of Indian movies and songs in the state media, how do you see the emerging civil liberties in Afghanistan? A: Well I am not even surprised, because we had the Indian movies, but we didn't have the Afghan female singers, so it's not new. In fact, we were expecting such a thing. I think [that] as Muslims we should not be so weak in our religion that if we see something we are corrupted and we lose our Islamic values. Q: Being a long time human-rights activist, are you satisfied with the state of women's rights in the country? A: No, not at all. We don't have many rights. If we have two women in the cabinet it does not mean that we have rights. I think the public and the government should give a democratic chance to women in all walks of life besides a prominent role in the reconstruction of the country. The problem is that some of the political parties think that whatever they think and do is right and whatever other people think and do is wrong. This is a negative attitude. As a human being, nobody is complete. As a good Muslim, I believe in the values of Islam. We also know the Islamic regulations, but we don't have to put extra regulations on women. I am surprised why they always put rules on women - why are there no extra rules for men? Q: With the Afghan judiciary dominated by religious conservatives, what recommendations do you have for establishing an independent judiciary in the country? A: It's not only one system wrong in this country. The Afghan government should try to build all the systems slowly according to the needs and priorities of the people. Although the chief justice [Maulavi Fazl-e Hadi Shinwari] is conservative, I believe he is a reasonable person. Q: Under the Bonn agreement, Afghanistan is supposed to become a democracy. How do you view the political freedom in the country? A: Hopefully, we are going towards democracy, and some progress has been made. It's a time-consuming process, and I hope we will have democracy eventually... I believe that democracy is not something that you would say in words, it's more in the actions that you take. Q: How optimistic are you about the future of human rights in the country? A: We hope and are trying to make this commission a body which will really try to educate and try to [bring about] reconciliation. We have to do peace-building within the community. I hope, we will also contribute in bringing back peace and stability to the country.