Programme on Women’s quotas for representation in institutions (March 17th, 2003)

PROGRAMME ON WOMEN’S QUOTAS English transcript March 2003 MUSIC MIC: Welcome to this programme, produced by the Nairobi-based radio service of IRIN… IRIN, the humanitarian news agency of the United Nations. SOUND: Women's Day “We are demanding that women be given not less than 25 percent representation in the parliament and at all levels of government. And this should be clearly written in the national Constitution.”… APPLAUSE…. “That’s right, that’s right….” MIC: Somali women participants at peace talks in Kenya used International Women's Day to renew their call for 25 percent representation in new Somali institutions, including parliament. But women are widely believed to make up more than half of the Somali population. So why have they set their sights on only 25 percent? IRIN put the question to Sahro Sheikh Hussein, one of the women participants at the peace talks for Somalia… SAHRA1 We are requesting 25 percent, although we know we are more in society. But because of circumstances, we are requesting 25 percent. Firstly, we don’t carry guns and we are not like those men who are involved in the fighting. We are sitting here at the peace conference and every day they fight over the number of seats they are being given. The numbers are never enough for them. So, to get peace, we don’t want to compete with them for the seats. And we are asking the international community to help us to get this 25 percent we’re asking for. MIC: Professor Wanjiku Kabira is a Kenyan specialist on gender affairs and a member of Kenya's Constitutional Review Commission. She is providing some support to Somali women at the conference, on behalf of the United Nations Development Fund for Women UNIFEM and the regional body IGAD, which is organizing the peace talks. Professor Kabira told IRIN that Somali women are not alone in demanding quotas for representation… WANJIKU 1 (VOICEOVER) One thing I can confirm is that they settled for 25 percent representation in all structures – and that is not very much to ask – except at the community level, where they felt they should be able to get 50 percent, you know, if you are talking about village committees and so on. What they are asking for is a policy that is being adopted all over the world. It's also a policy within the African region now, it's a policy that has been adopted in many countries for women's political participation and participation in other decision making positions. This policy has been used in Tanzania since Nyerere's time. You know Nyerere had a policy of 15 percent women's participation, and they changed the Constitution last year to make it 20 percent. It's a policy that Uganda has used which has raised the number of women to about 18 percent in parliament and one-third in local authorities. MIC: So 25 percent representation does not seem very much to ask. IRIN asked Professor Kabira if she thinks Somali women could ask for more… WANJIKU 2 (VOICEOVER) I think if you want affirmative action that can make a major difference, one-third of women has been described as the best percentage: 33 percent. That can actually bring in major changes within institutions and in the development of policies. But you know, the argument of the women over the 25 percent is they feel that they have come together for the first time as women to negotiate for their position in government, and a lot of them were convinced that they want to ask for something that will force the other leaders to say: well, we cannot deny them this. So I think they are using it as a beginning point. MIC: So what is the attitude of the male participants at the conference, and in particular the Leaders who will have to approve any proposals put to the plenary? Faction leader Hussein Aideed says he supports the idea of quotas for women's representation… AIDEED1 I believe that they are the most important part of society and that they will be democratically elected to the future parliament. So I say a percentage agreeable to everyone is 20 percent as a starting point. Not only for parliament but also for the judiciary, where women lawyers must take part at all levels. And they should start with 20 percent like in Uganda. So I believe we should start from 20 percent, and that 20 percent should be shared out according to the 4.5 clan formula. MIC: It seems that others are also willing to countenance the idea to some extent. Here is Puntland's Minister of Justice and Religious Affairs Awad Ahmed Ashara… ASHARA1 I believe nobody's rights can be violated because there are laws that define the rights of individuals. Somali women are more numerous than men. When it comes to elections, they will win seats, but let them first get organized. MIC: But member of the Mogadishu-based Transitional National Parliament Abdi Rahim Muse Abshir also expressed some caution… TNG1 If it's agreed, then 25 percent is no problem. But we have to take into account the overall number of seats in the new parliament. Some political groups here recently said there should 450 seats. If they are given 25 percent, that's a lot of seats. MUSIC MIC: Even if members of the Leaders' Committee say they do not oppose the idea of a quota for women in parliament, some men are putting up resistance. For example, the draft reports of the technical committee on federalism are recommending that women be given only 10 percent. The two federalism subcommittees disagree on their overall vision for a future Somalia, but they agree on this point. Ali Aden Hussein Marguus is a member of the federalism committee. He told IRIN why the committee had downsized the women's demand… MARGUUS1 They deserve more than 25 percent. But 10 percent is too much at this time, because the country is in a chaotic situation and people are fighting over power. If they don't stop saying 25 percent, then they will even get the quota cut from 10 percent to 5 percent. We're a Moslem country, women are not allowed to participate in leadership, their role is to look after the home and the family. So we're saying 10 percent to give them some recognition. But I think it's too much for now, they have to accept 5 percent. MIC: Lawyer Fahmo Ahmed Nur is also a member of the federalism committee. She told IRIN the 10 percent recommendation came in spite of the women's efforts… FAHMO1 We made a big effort for women to get a quota in parliament and up to now the two subcommittees (of the federalism committee) have accepted 10 percent. But we want 15 percent, because we were given 11 percent under Arta and we want to make progress, not to go backwards. Although we deserve to be given 50%, and we are 65% in society, considering the circumstances and the interests of the people, we compromised on 25 percent. Q (IRIN): Is it clear in the federal committees' reports what should be the constitutional quota for women? A: Actually, it's not a Constitution but a Charter. If it had been a Constitution, it would have to be put to a referendum. But now it is a transitional Charter, and what is out are only drafts. The two drafts have not been united, but both sub-groups wrote 10 percent, although we had asked for 25 percent. MIC: Professor Wanjiku Kabira says support activities for Somali women at the conference may include lobbying the technical committees. And she believes the women have plenty of work to do yet if their voices are finally to be heard… WANJIKU 3 I think the job does not end with the numbers, the job only begins when the numbers are there. Then you want to look at the priorities, you want to look at the policies from a gender perspective, you want to influence the institutions and make the institutions right for women, you want to think about getting the men themselves to see gender issues as issues of governance, as issues of human rights, as issues of development. MIC: That was Professor Wanjiku Kabira of the Kenya Constitutional Review Commission, ending this programme on women's demands for representation in new Somali institutions. Thank you for listening. This programme was brought to you by the radio service of IRIN... IRIN, the humanitarian news agency of the United Nations. The programme was produced with support of the European Commission and the government of Switzerland. MUSIC Barnaamij Ku Sabsaan Qeybta Haweenka Qoraalka Soomaaliga Maarso 2003 MUSIC: MIC: Kulanti wanaagsan dhagaystayaal dhammaantiinba, kuna soo dhowaada barnaamijkan oo uu idiin soo diyaariyay Raadiyaha IRIN ee wakaaladda warrarka bini'aadaminimada qaramada midoobay oo ay xaruntiisu tahay Magaalada Nairobi. SOUND: (Women's Day, call for 25%) Waxaanu codsaneynaa in tiro sugan oo ah 25% loo qoondooye Haweenka inay ku yeeshaan Baarlamaanka iyo xilal xukumadeedka maamul ee sare iyo hoosaba, taasoo si cad loogu qeexaayo looguna diiwaan gelinayo dastuurka qaran. MIC: Haweenka Soomaaliyeed ee ka qeybgalaya Wada hadalka nabada Soomaalida ee ka soconaya dalka Kenya ayaa Munaasabadii 8da Maarso ee Haweenka Caalamka, waxa ay mar kale ku celiyeen baaqoodii ahaa in Haweenku ay ku yeeshaan 25% Maamulka cusub ee Soomaaliya ay yeelanayso, gaar ahaan Baarlamaanka. Waxaa si weyn loo rumeysan yahay in Haweenku tiro ahaan ay ka badan yihiin kala bar Bulshada Soomaaliyeed, hadaba waa maxay sababta ay u doonayaan 25% oo keliya. IRIN waxa ay su'aashaasi weydiisay Sahro Sheikh Hussein, oo ka mid ah Haweenka ka qeybgalaya wada hadalka nabada Soomaalida... SOUND: SAHRA1 Shan iyo labaatanka markaan codsanaynay waa ognahay bulshada annagaa u badan, ragga iyo haweenka, haweenkaa badan, laakiin duruufo jira aawadood baa waxaan u codsanay shan iyo labaatanka, waa marka u horraysee annagu ma nihin ragga hubaysan ee dagaallada ku jira, haddii maanta shir loo fadhiyo ayagana maalin walba wixii la siiyo ay saluugaan, si nabad loo helo annagu inaan ku ciriirino ma doonayno, beesha caalamkana aan gacan ka waydiisanayaa in gacan nalagu siiyo shan iyo labaatanka. MIC: Professor Wanjiku Kabira waa haweeneey khabiir ku ah arrimaha Jinsiga oo u dhalatay dalka Kenya isla markaana waxa ay xubin ka tahay Gudiga dib u eegista Dastuurka Kenya,Waxaana ay la shaqeysaa Sanduuqa Horumarinta Haweenka u qaabilsan Qaramada midoobay ee loo yaqaan UNIFEM iyo Urur goboleedka IGAD, iyadoo gacan siisa Haweenka Soomaaliyeed ee shirka ka qeybgalaya. Professor Kabira waxa ay IRIN u sheegtay in Haweenka Soomaaliyeed aysan keli ku ahayn Codsigooda ah inay qeyb ka helaan Maamulka... SOUND: WANJIKU1 (VOICEOVER) Hal arrin oo aan caddayn karaa waa in 25% ay ku meeleeyeen qaab dhismayeedyada oo dhan, taasna wax badan oo la weydiisto maaha, marka laga reebo heerka bulshada, oo ay filayeen in ay heli karaan 50 boqolkiiba, waad ogtahay, haddii aad ka hadlayso bulsho degaameedka iyo wixii la mida ahba, waxa ay ku waydiinayaan waa siyaasad, taasoo ah mid lala wada qabsaday dunida oo dhan, waana siyaasad hadda ka jirta gobolka afrika, waa siyaasad ay waddamo badan la qabsadeen ka qaybgalka siyaasadda ee haweenka, iyo ka qaybqaadashada doorarka kale ee go'aan dejinta, siyaasaddani waa mid ay isticmaali jirtay Tanzaaniya, illaa xilligii Nareeeri, waadna ogtahay ka qaybgalka haweenku ee xilligaasi wuxuu ahaa 15, boqolkiiba, waxayna baddaleen dastuurkaasi san! nadkii hore, iyagoo ka dhigay 20 boqolkiiba, waana mid ay isticmaasho dowladda ugaandha, taasoo 18% kor u qaadday xubnaha tirada haweenka baarlamaanka, iyo saddexdiiba hal awoodda dowladda dhexe. MIC: Si kastaba ha ahaatee boqolkiiba shan iyo labaatan uma muuqato wax sidaa u badan oo la weydiisto. Laakiin IRIN waxa ay su'aashay Professor Kabira inay la tahay in Haweenka Soomaaliyeed ay codsan lahaayeen wax ka badan SOUND: WANJIKU2 (VOICEOVER) Waxaan u malaynayaa haddii aad dooneyso ficil lagugu raaco, oo isbaddal wayn samayn kara, waa mid saddexdiiba hal haweenka lagu qeexay bersentageka ugu wanaagsan in uu yahay 33 boqolkiiba. Taas ayaa xaqiiqdii isbadallo badan u keeni karta dastuurka iyo horumarka siyaasadaha, laakiin waad ogtahay, doodda haweenka, ee ka qaybgalka 25% inay dareemayaan inay tahay markii ugu horaysay ee ay meel isugu yimaadaan, oo ay ku gor gortamaan doorkooda siyaasadeed ee dowladda, kuwo badan oo ka mid ahna waxay ku qanacsan yihiin , in ay doonayaan in ay waydiistaan, hoggaamiyaysaasha inay ku khasbaan hoggaamiyayaasha kale inay yiraahdaan "waahagaag" ma diidi karno codsigooda, sidaasi daraaddeed waxaan u malaynayaa inay u tahay tallaabo billow ah. MIC: Hadaba waa maxay fikirka ay ka qabaan Ragga ka qeybgalaya shirka arintaasi, gaar ahaan Hogaamiyeyaasha oo iyagu ah kuwa ansixinaya qorshe kasta oo loo soo bandhigo shirweynaha? Hogaamiye kooxeedka Hussein Mohamed Aideed ayaa sheegaya inuu taageerayo fikrada haweenka ee ay ku doonayaan qeybtooda Maamulka ... SOUND: AIDEED1 Waxaan rumeysanahay mar walbaba qeybaha bulshada qeybta ugu muhiimsan oo istaagan oo marna aan joogsan inay ka mid yihiin, Baarlamaanka Soomaali dhisan doontana oo si dimuquraadi ah gudaha loogu soo dooran doono shaki iigama jiro in dumar ay madax ka yihiin, marka mar walba ani waxaan dhihi lahaa numberkii la isla gartaa oo base-ka 25% halooga dhigo ayaan qabaa ka bacdina Baarlamaanka keligiis yeysan noqone executive judiciary-ga gabdhaha sharci yaqaanka inay ka qeyb qaataan sharci dejinta judiciary maxkamada sare iyo maxkamada degmooyinka sidoo kale inay ka qeyb qaataan Baarlamaanka, laguna bilaabo 20, sida halgankii qolodaan soo gashay Uganda madaxweynaha Yuweri Musavini civil war sida anaga camal ayay yeeleen 25 ayay gaarsiiyeen laakiin laba dawladood ayay badaleen, marka anagana waxaan qabaa inaan ka bilawno base-ka 20, base-kaasna aan u qeybino dhaman 4.5. MIC: Waxa ay u muuqataa in qaar kale oo hogaamiyeyaasha ka mid ah ay ogol yihiin fikrad ahaan arintaasi ilaa xad, waa kan Wasiirka Cadaalada iyo Arrimaha Diinta ee Puntland Awad Ahmed Ashara... SOUND: ASHARA1 Anigu waxaan qabaa qofna inaan xaqiisa la duudsiin Karin, maxaa jira sharci baa qofka ma ogtahay wax u jideeya, dumarka Soomaaliyeed raga waa ka badan yihiin, marka doorasho loo tago iyagaa helaaya waxay xaq u lahaayeen marka ha is dhiseen dumarka Soomaaliyeed. MIC: Laakiin Xoghayaha Baarlamaanka KMG ah ee Soomaaliya ee fadhigiisu yahay Magaalada Muqdisho Abdi Rahim Muse Abshir ayaa ka muujiyey dareen shaki ku jiro... SOUND: TNG1 Hadiiba la isku raaco ama la isla garto kaalin intaa la eg 25%, yacni wax dhibaato ah oo ay leedahay ma leh, laakiin waxaa lagu xisaabtamaayaa tirada baarlamaanka intee marka hore noqon kartaa qiyaasta lagu tala galo, ujeedadu waxay ahayd berri dhawayd markii la balamay oo la isku raacay political groups-ka oo la yiri Baarlamaanku ha noqdo 450, marka afar boqol iyo kontan 25% hadii laga siiyo tiradu waxaad yara moodaa inay kasii yara badanayso. MUSIC TRANSITION MIC: Xitaa hadii Xubno ka mid ah Gudiga hogaamiyeyaasha aysan dooneyn in si cad ay uga soo horjeestaan fikrada ah in haweenku ay ku yeeshaan Baarlamaanka 25%, qaar kale ayaa arintaasi kasoo horjeesanaya. Tusaale ahaan Warbixinada aan rasmiga ahayn ee Gudiga Farsmada ee Federalku waxa ay soo jeedinayaan in Haweenka la siiyo 10%, Labada gudi hoosaad ee Federalka waxaa sidoo kale ay isku khilaafsan yihiin aragtidooda guud ee mustaqbalka Somalia, laakiin arintan qeybta Haweenka wey isku raacsan yihiin. Ali Aden Hussein Marguus oo xubin ka ah gudiga federalka, ayaa IRIN uga waramay sababta gudigu u yareeyey tirada ay Dumarku dalbadeen... SOUND: MARGUUS 1. Shan iy labaatan ka badan waa u qalmeen, laakiin hada tobankaaba ku badan maadaama wadanka uu buuq iyo qalalaase ku jiro xukunkana la isku heysto, tobankaaba ku badan hadii wararka 25 ay soo gaarsiiyaan tobanka boqolkiiba shan ayaa la dhigi doonaa. Dad Muslim ah ayaan nahay maadaam dad Muslim ahna aan nahay Haweenka in xukunka laga qeyb galiyo maha, in hooyooyinka guryaha iyo caruurta iyo ma taqaanaa ay qabtaan weeye, hadana inaan soo xuno oo magacooda meesha uu ka maqnaado ayaan diidaynay, boqolkiiba toban ha lagaaro weli ani tobanka waa badan yahay shan ha ku qancaan ayaan leeyahay. MIC: Fahmo Ahmed Nur waa gabar sharci yaqaanad ah, oo xubin ka ah Gudiga Federalka Waxaa IRIN ay u sheegtay in boqolkiiba tobanka Haweenka ay ku timid Dadaal ay sameeyeen... SOUND: FAHMO 1. Runtii dadaal weyn ayaan u galnay in haweenka ay quota ku yeeshaan Baarlamaanka, ilaa iyo hada labada gudi waxa ay ogol yihiin boqolkiiba toban, laakiin anagu waxaan rabnaa boqolkiiba shan iyo labaatan, bacdamaa kii Carte boqolkiiba kow iyo toban iyo ba, inaan horumar sii sameyno maahee inaan dib u noqono ma rabno inkastoo aan mudneyn boqolkiiba konton, bacdamaa aan society-ga ka nahay 65%, hadana anagoo fiirineyna duruufta iyo biseylka siyaasadeed ee haweenka, tanasul waxaan u sameynay halkii aan ka heli lahayn boqolkiiba konton inaan helno boqolkiiba shan iyo labaatan. Su'aal: Dastuurka ama qoraalka hada la qoray ma lagu daray mase ku cadahay haweenka tirada la siiyey. Runtii Dastuur ma aha waxa la qoraayo waa charter, dastuur haduu ahaan lahaa afti ayaa la sameyn lahaa, rabitaanka shacabka ayuuna ku imaan lahaa, laakiin kan waa charter waa axdi ku meel gaar ah hadana waxaa soo baxay draft keliya,weli lama mideyn hawshu waa socotaa, hada drafti nahaan boqolkiiba toban ayay labada qoloba ku qoreen, laakiin boqolkiiba shan iyo labaatanka dalab ahaan xaanshi ayaan ku geynay. MIC: Professor Wanjiku Kabira waxa ay sheegeysaa in hawlaha taageerada Haweenka Soomaaliyeed ee shirka ay ku jirto in loogu ololeeyo Gudiyada Farsamada, waxaana ay rumeysan tahay in haweenka ay weli u taalo hawl badan hadii ugu danbeyn codkooda la maqlo... SOUND: WANJIKU 3. (VOICEOVER) Waxaan u malaynayaa shaqadu inaysan ku dhammaanayn tirooyinka, shaqadu waxa kaliya oo ay bilaabataa marka ay tirooyinkan jiraan, ka dibna waxaad doonaysaa inaad fiiriso ahmiyadda, waxaad rabtaa oo kale inaad siyaasadaha ka fiirisid muuqaalka jinsiga, waxaad rabtaa inaad saameeyn ku yeelato Hey'adaha, aadna u sameysid haweenka Hey'ado ku haboon, waxaad doonaysaa inaad ka fakartid ragu inay u arkaan arimaha jinsiga inay yihiin sida kuwo maamul, xuquuqul insaan iyo arrimaha,horumarinta. MIC: Taasina waxay ahayd professor Wanjiku kabira oo ah Haweeneey gacan siisa Haweenka Soomaaliyeed ee ka qeybgalaya shirka, isla markaana ka tirsan guddiga dib u eegista dastuurka waddanka Kenya, oo aan ku soo gaba-gabaynayno barnamijkan oo aanu kaga hadlaynay codsiga ka qaybgalka haweenka ee baarlamaanka Soomaaliya. Waad ku mahadsan tihiin dhagaysiga barnaamijkan. Barnaamijkan waxaa idiin soo diyaariyay Raadiyaha IRIN, ee wakaaladda wararaka Bini'aadainimada ee QM, soo saaristiisana waxaa gacan ka gaystay midowga yurub iyo dowladda Switzerland. (Music)